Writing for Your Brand: Using eBooks for Brand Growth and Thought Leadership

Larry Roberts [00:00:09]:

What is happening, everybody? I'm Larry Roberts.

Sara Lohse [00:00:11]:

And I'm Sara Lohse. And this is Branded, your comprehensive guide to creative branding.

Larry Roberts [00:00:16]:

And on this episode of the podcast, we're going to be talking about ebooks. How ebooks can help position you as a thought leader, grow your brand, and maybe even get you set up to write your first book.

Sara Lohse [00:00:30]:

Larry and I have both written so many ebooks, I feel like we're putting out a new one every other week. So this is definitely something that we have a little bit of experience in.

Larry Roberts [00:00:40]:

If I'm being completely honest, I was inspired to start writing ebooks because I saw you writing all of the ebooks and I'm like, oh, my gosh, she's literally got ebooks for every vertical that she speaks on. And I just thought, man, that's freaking brilliant. So I started it. And in writing that first one, I was like, this is pretty cool. I was, I mentioned on a couple episodes before, but I was on ABC talking about AI proofing our kids and how we prepare our kids for a very AI driven future. And I thought, you know what? What if I had a companion ebook to go with this appearance and I wrote the ebook AI proof kids? And that inspired me to really start an entire series of AI proof. I've done businesses, I've done business brokers, I've written one for entrepreneurs, I'm writing one for lawyers. And I'm just going to have this entire series of AI proof verticals, whatever vertical it may be.

Larry Roberts [00:01:41]:

And when I mentioned that these books exist, people are like, oh my gosh, that's so great. How do I get a copy? They're just so excited about the fact they have the opportunity to learn more about AI from me, and not because of me being me, but because I'm already talking to them as a subject matter expert. Like, oh my gosh, if I can get more of this content, I would love to do that. So providing these ebooks has already just reinforced my credibility as an AI, quote unquote, expert in the space.

Sara Lohse [00:02:11]:

Yeah, for me, I write them as I find different opportunities. So I have a platform that I'm a part of that gives me lists of speaking opportunities, all different events that are looking for speakers, that are accepting pitches from speakers. And if I find one that I'm like, oh, I can relate what I do to this audience. I can apply to speak here. I will then go and write an ebook on it. So I kind of go almost backwards, I guess. It's like I don't have an ebook because I want to speak to this audience. It's.

Sara Lohse [00:02:42]:

I want to speak to this audience. Let me make an ebook. And when I started doing these, it was years ago, I was doing them for clients. It wasn't just about, and still isn't just about the authority and being seen as that expert. It's legion. This is all about business building and an ebook. The way that we structure it is it's available completely for free to download off our website. But to download it, you need to give us your email address.

Sara Lohse [00:03:12]:

That puts you into our contact system, it puts you into, for me, constant contact. And I have a four or five step email series that'll start getting sent to you. So not only do I have this piece of content that you're interested in because it relates specifically to your industry or your job, but now I'm going to hit you with more and more ways that I can help you based on what it is that you do.

Larry Roberts [00:03:40]:

Yeah. And I love that. And I'm going to get in trouble for this. But I struggle with putting my ebooks behind an email wall. I just put them out there because I want to reinforce my brand. And so many people there, at least in my PE, little sized brain, are used to having to give their email for something. And I don't know if I'm the only one that does it. I highly doubt it.

Larry Roberts [00:04:09]:

But, you know, I've got one of those trash email accounts that I always use when you're forcing me to give me any, give you an email to get your content. And for me, I don't even want to put people through those steps again. I know I'm gonna get in trouble for this. I know there's people that are listening right now that want to call me up and call me a bunch of bad names because I'm moving, I'm losing all this money and I'm missing all this opportunity for leads. And I totally respect that perspective, but for whatever reason, I just can't make myself do it.

Sara Lohse [00:04:37]:

I mean, it's different goals, I guess, but it also makes me think of what we've talked about. Like, we talk about it when we talked about all of the events that we've done and being in the expo hall. We talked about the importance of having the power be in our hands and not theirs. So part of that email capture is putting it in our hands because yes, we'll have a call to action in the ebook that says, like, if you want to discuss this further, if you want to learn more, reach out to us. But if they have to give us their email address, then we can reach out to them. So it's part of that, like having the control. Yeah, but I mean, if that's not what you're looking for, like there's different goals. People write ebooks for different reasons.

Sara Lohse [00:05:21]:

So you don't, there's no right or wrong way to do it, but just do it, I guess, really. And these days with all the tools out there, it's so easy.

Larry Roberts [00:05:33]:

It's super easy. Barely an inconvenience and that line. But, but the thing is, yeah, you just have to do it and you're talking about all the tools that are out there to do it with. You know, the process that I use is pretty straightforward. I know you probably take a little bit of a different approach. Me personally, you know, it all starts in Chad GPT and I use Chad GPT to give me an outline, a chapter outline for an ebook on whatever topic it may be. And then using Chad GPT, I build out each and every one of those chapters. I include usually a vocabulary in the back of or the, at the end of the ebook and additional resources to go along with it for additional reading or web resources or whatever it may be.

Larry Roberts [00:06:19]:

But then I take that content because I got to pretty it up too, right? I take the content that we get and I throw it into a Google Doc and format it and have all that fun there. Then I take it a step further and I transcribe it all over into canva where I've got a nice, pretty little template with a nice little, pretty little watermarked background and it's got the logo on and it's got a nice cover sheet on it. And that way when you export it to PDF, it looks beautiful. What do you do?

Sara Lohse [00:06:47]:

Yeah, I've noticed a very big difference between mine and yours. You have like a table of contents and like a glossary. I don't at all. I do very similar. I write them in Google Docs and depending on who I'm speaking to, I'll take a different approach. So if I'm speaking to like a very like more like corporate professional audience, I'm just going to keep the Google Doc and then I'll just design the COVID page in canva. And so that the COVID is pretty, it stands out, it's branded, but then the inside is just very, just kind of straightforward. It's still written in my voice, it's still kind of fun and playful.

Sara Lohse [00:07:31]:

I'm never going to write like a corporate stooge. I just cannot do it. But then for the ones that are more fun, that are corporate stooge, I didn't call you that. But if the shoe fits.

Larry Roberts [00:07:45]:

What about house shoes? Because I mean, I'm in my house shoes at the moment.

Sara Lohse [00:07:49]:

So if I'm speaking to a more fun audience, like the ones that are more about like personal branding and brand building, all of those that I'm just talking to, just people, entrepreneurs, not specific industries, I'll make them more fun. I'll put the whole thing into canva and design it. Put add little graphics. Even like my book that's coming out is completely illustrated. There's graphics everywhere. Because I love that look. It's very me. But I want to make sure that I'm tailoring my content to the target audience in a way that still feels like me.

Sara Lohse [00:08:19]:

So I'll always still have my pretty cover. It's always going to be pink and it's always going to be written in my voice. But how far I take the design aspect is what differs.

Larry Roberts [00:08:30]:

So do you have consistency throughout the ebooks? Like for instance, I mean mine are essentially a series AI proof insert whatever vertical it may be or whatever niche audience I'm directing it out. Do you maintain that consistency or do you stylize it up a bit? Depending on the audience?

Sara Lohse [00:08:47]:

I guess I kind of go both ways. I have a group of them that are basically tuning into blank and those are my ebooks that are all about applying podcasting as a tool within a different industry. So I have like tuning into the market for real estate. I have tuning into your audience for people who are really like data driven. They want to learn how they can learn more about their audiences. I have tuning into like campus voices or something. So for higher education. So that's almost like a series, but really just because of the title.

Sara Lohse [00:09:23]:

I think like the content is very tailored to that industry. So there's those ones, but then there are some that are just one offs, ones like I have one that's 50 ways to generate leads. I have one that's eight steps to building your brand. So those are just one offs, they're not connected to anything else. So I guess it depends.

Larry Roberts [00:09:41]:

I got you. And that's from a design perspective too. They look a little bit different. Or do you have that? Because I mean, if you look at mine, the COVID is the same, it's the exact same cover, just a different title. And I'm not saying that's right. It's probably more corporate stoogey the way that I do it in all honesty than the creative and crafty way that you do it, and probably a little bit more visually appealing way that you do it.

Sara Lohse [00:10:04]:

Honestly, mine aren't that fun. I've been wanting to redo them. Honestly, I want to redo all my covers, but right now it's just, like, my brand pink behind it. It's the words and, like, a block font, so it's easy to see from a distance because when it's on my website, it's a really small icon, and then I'll add, like, maybe a little doodle in the corner that fits, like, the audience or something that's, like, related to the industry. So it's really not that fun. I really should redo it and make it more fun because it's just. I don't like boring.

Larry Roberts [00:10:35]:

Well, it's funny because I downloaded one the other day. I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head, but I was going through it, man, and every chapter had a very visually appealing chapter page. And, you know, throughout the didn't just have bullet points, it had, like, little light bulb icons throughout it, too. And I was like, oh, dude, that's pretty cool. And I need to go back and I need to fancy mine up a bit. But I don't know. I don't know.

Sara Lohse [00:10:58]:

Yeah, I think really the most important thing, like, we're kind of getting into, like, the weeds of, like, the branding it for yourself.

Larry Roberts [00:11:05]:

Yeah.

Sara Lohse [00:11:05]:

But for someone listening who wants to get into doing this, like, let's talk a little bit, like, how to do it, because it's really is not that hard. And I think the first step is really figuring out what your goal is. We talked a little bit about how our goals might be different, but why are you putting out an ebook? Is this because you want to build a mailing list? Is it because you're speaking to an audience? Like, whatever it is, you kind of start there and build from that. And I think for us, one of the main ways that we do it, or at least that I do it, I think you do it as well. When we go to speak at an event, we're speaking on stage. I have the QR codes just to go download that ebook built into my presentation so that I already know I have a bit of a captive audience. Like, they're already there listening to me speak, that I'm speaking on this topic. And I might have an ebook that goes deep into almost like, a tangential.

Sara Lohse [00:12:01]:

Tangential?

Larry Roberts [00:12:03]:

Yeah, you gotta write that.

Sara Lohse [00:12:05]:

Yeah. So, like, I've done presentations just on like how podcasting can grow a brand. And I'll talk a little bit about lead Gen. So then I'll have, well, if you want to learn more about this specifically, I don't have time to really dig into it, download this ebook so that I can still kind of send them down another path that I have expertise in. Show off more of what I know. And at the same time, even though you might not do it, I get their email address.

Larry Roberts [00:12:35]:

I think that's totally cool. I think that. I think that's great.

Sara Lohse [00:12:37]:

Yeah.

Larry Roberts [00:12:38]:

And you know, in talking about building these for speaking opportunities, you know, traditionally over the last umpteen years, whenever I would speak, I'd always have a QR code at the end of the presentation. Actually, I always put one at the front. And at the end of the presentation.

Sara Lohse [00:12:52]:

I started doing that because of you.

Larry Roberts [00:12:54]:

For people to get the slides. So. But then it dawned on me, okay, so they get the slides and maybe they're going through the slides and they'll maybe remember something that I said on that slide. But typically on slides, what are you getting? You're getting high level bullet points. So if you really want to provide additional value beyond the stage, why not provide an ebook that reinforces all the principles that you discussed on whatever topic it was you were presenting on from the stage that connects with that audience, that gives them even more value. And if you have that CTA that you're talking about, you mentioned that earlier. If you have a CTA in that ebook to connect with you and who knows, work with you ideally, or buy your goods and services, whatever it may be, then I think that just reinforces the fact that I saw this person on stage. They gave me this book for f r e e for free.

Larry Roberts [00:13:49]:

So now's the opportunity for us to reach out and really, really develop a relationship.

Sara Lohse [00:13:53]:

Yeah, and that's a really good point because we like when we want to do this because we're speaking on stage. Like I said, I learned from you to do the QR code at the beginning and the end. And what we do with that is, or at least how I set it up at the beginning. It's a QR code that I say if you want to get these slides to like, look at them again later or follow along download, you can scan this code and instantly download them. And that is not behind an email wall, which I also learned from you, because that's more, they're more likely to do it, but when they get to the page that that sends to the first, like, call to action, is just download the slides. It's instant download. They just click the button. But under that I will also have a call to action to download an ebook that I have on exactly the same topic.

Sara Lohse [00:14:43]:

I'll basically write the ebook based on my slides or create the slides based on my ebook. So it's just digging farther into what I talked about because my slides are even less content than yours. You put all those bullet points. I'll put like a word, like, I don't, I don't put anything. It's so little content because it's really just to jog my own memory. I don't want to be distracting them away from what I'm saying because I have ADHD and I'll just be trying to figure like read the slides and I won't even be listening. So I cater to myself and I just don't put much content. So then if they want to download my slides, they can, but they won't get much.

Sara Lohse [00:15:19]:

So then if they want to really get the information, download the ebook and I get their email.

Larry Roberts [00:15:24]:

I gotta be honest, I put that data on the, on the slides. Cause that's my security blanket. That way I don't forget what I'm talking about. So in that instance, I'm not really thinking about the audience, I'm thinking about the fact that I'm standing in front of an audience and I need to make sure I don't get lost in my, my train of thought there.

Sara Lohse [00:15:41]:

So that's exactly why your presentations are far more like data driven, though. Mine are more like concepts and ideas. Yours are like, this is how this works. So it makes sense that we have different ways of doing it.

Larry Roberts [00:15:53]:

Yeah, and I'm just insecure on stage.

Sara Lohse [00:15:55]:

Oh, and I'm not.

Larry Roberts [00:15:59]:

So I briefly mentioned earlier that I use chat GPT to write my ebooks. And I think the process of writing it, while it seems pretty straightforward, you just write a book, it can be a little intimidating. And if you're sitting back and you're like, okay, I really want to do this because I think there would be some value in this, but what do I write about? So how do you go about finding the topics you talked about? You write the ebooks to complement your speaking engagements, but if somebody out there listening hasn't started their speaking career or has no desire to ever be on stage, how can they go through the ideation process and figure out what books or what topics would be best for their niche?

Sara Lohse [00:16:39]:

Yeah, I think there's a few different ways to do that and I've done it so many different ways. One way is a website called answer the public and you can put in like just one word of what your topic is. So if I was writing an ebook on storytelling, I could just type storytelling and it will give me all of these lists of the most googled questions that people have been searching for. So it'll help you kind of figure out what people want to know about your topic. So that's one way. But then also think about almost like your faq page. What are the questions that you're getting asked the most? Like, not just what, what are people googling? What are people specifically asking you? Like when, when you talk about what you do, what is the part that like kind of gets that hold up? Like, oh, wait, what do you mean by that? Like how do you do that? That you already know that people are interested in that. Like you, you already know people want to know more about that.

Sara Lohse [00:17:39]:

So just dig into it. Have that as that ebook. And I would also say, just think about the things that you really like talking about. Because if you want to write an ebook about something you're really not interested in, that's like the least exciting part of your job is the part that you really hate doing. You're going to hate writing it. It's not going to be fun. It's not going to come out as good as something you're excited about. So think about what is really fun about what you do and write the book.

Sara Lohse [00:18:07]:

Not even just about how to do it, but why have it be a little more personal, have it be like more of stories of how you got here and how like you've came to be excited about this as a way to get other people excited. And I think that can be a really good way to not only establish some credibility, because you do want to be putting in information, you want it to be informative and educational, but you're also putting in some of yourself and that's going to get people to know you and understand you and are more likely to want to work with you.

Larry Roberts [00:18:37]:

No, I love that. And actually, I'd forgotten about answerthepublic.com and I used to use it a lot. I don't know why it fell off my radar, but I love the fact that it takes keyword searching one step further. And keyword searching is a great way to figure out a topic as well. You can go over to Google Ads and you can use their keyword planner. It's totally free. You just go in there, type in a subject and it'll give you all the keywords that are associated with that subject. You can see those keywords based on popularity.

Larry Roberts [00:19:06]:

How many monthly searches are there for each of those potential keywords? Then you can take those keywords that are at the top of the list, go over to answerthepublic.com and get the actual questions that people are asking in regards to those keywords. And I mean, that's the whole purpose of your ebook is really to answer those questions. So combining those two could be really, really powerful ways for you to find out exactly what direction you want to take your ebook and what information people are going to find valuable if they read it.

Sara Lohse [00:19:36]:

Yeah, and there's some even workarounds to not use either of those. If you put the whatever your keyword topic is, just type it into the search bar on Google, it's going to pop up with like completing your sentence because Google is very impatient and wants to just know what you're talking about before you say it. So it's like that. There's those YouTube videos of celebrities asking the most Google questions. They just put in is like Ryan Reynolds blank and then it just fills it in. Do that, put in artificial intelligence and then see what comes up and pick one of them that you're interested in and then even scroll to the bottom and it's going to say people also searched for and it'll give you even more. So just using the Google homepage can give you so many ideas that you don't even have to go a second step to go to a different website or go into the keyword planner.

Larry Roberts [00:20:26]:

Use Google, just use the Google man.

Sara Lohse [00:20:29]:

Or ask chat GPT, as Larry would.

Larry Roberts [00:20:32]:

Say, you nailed it. That's exactly what I do. And you know, I take it one step further too, because working with, with Chad GPT, if you're not overly experienced in writing ebooks with Chad GPT can almost be a little frustrating because the way that it structures it. But with custom GPTs, you can use a custom GPT, go into the GPT store, type an ebook. And there are a ton of custom GPTs that are designed specifically for writing ebooks. And I love them. Take the one that has the most conversations, the most frequently used custom GPT for writing ebooks. Tell it.

Larry Roberts [00:21:10]:

Say, hey, I want to write an ebook about this. And oh my gosh, you're done. If you're not done, but you're very close to being done, what it will actually do is it'll break it down. It'll instantly give you a complete table of contents for that particular book, it'll give you chapter headings and then usually two to three sections for each of those chapters. Then you literally, all you have to do is go back and tell Chad GPT, write chapter one, include the sections below, list the sections that were for that chapter. Boom, you've got a page and a half to two page chapter. Literally done. All you have to do now is go back through that chapter, read it, change a few phrases, put some personality in there, eliminate the word delve, and, and then do it for each of those chapters.

Larry Roberts [00:21:56]:

You can literally have an ebook written in 30 minutes. And from there it's just formatting, it's cake.

Sara Lohse [00:22:02]:

Or option two.

Larry Roberts [00:22:05]:

Yeah, you spend two days writing an ebook.

Sara Lohse [00:22:09]:

Give you that outline so you have a starting point, and then actually write it with your own brain. Also an option for those old fashioned folks like me. Yeah. Want to write words themselves? There's, it's, you know.

Larry Roberts [00:22:31]:

Or that's what diaries are for. Write your own words in your diary. Use modern technology to streamline your workflow and create content at a pace that nobody else can match by leveraging the power of chat GPT and other AI platforms like Claude.

Sara Lohse [00:22:45]:

You know what? Why don't you just replace your co host with chat GPT? I bet you could, uh, chat BT.

Larry Roberts [00:22:51]:

And eleven labs could definitely do that. Yeah.

Sara Lohse [00:22:54]:

Well, this has been fun. Seriously, there are so many tools out there to make this easy, and it's having an ebook, having just something tangible is going to be really helpful in so many situations. Like we've talked about having it from the stage, but having it while you're on a podcast. If you want to guest on a podcast as part of building your brand, that can be your call to action. And that's a really great way to send people to your website, get their email address. If you put it behind that email wall and start building your contact list while offering something really valuable, but it's also just while you're networking. That's a, it's a great way to really continue a conversation. If you start talking about something, you're telling someone what you do and they're asking questions, they're obviously interested.

Sara Lohse [00:23:42]:

You can say like, I would, I could talk about this all day, but here, take, take my card. If you go to my website, you can download a free ebook about it and then let's talk about it later once you've read it. Like, it's a way to get their information, prove that you have that knowledge, and just offer more value just in a regular conversation. Jeff.

Larry Roberts [00:24:01]:

And speaking of value, we hope you found some value in this episode. We hope we've inspired you to step out and write your first ebook and your second ebook, and before you know it, you'll have an entire series of ebooks. You know, one thing, I wanted to wrap this episode, but it just dawned on me too, something that you do that I adopted, that I was waiting for.

Sara Lohse [00:24:20]:

I was waiting for this piece. Yes, I know where you're going. I know where you're going.

Larry Roberts [00:24:24]:

For every ebook, Sara buys a custom domain.

Sara Lohse [00:24:29]:

Yes, every ebook has a domain.

Larry Roberts [00:24:32]:

Exactly. She's got a library of these ebooks on her website. And then in addition to that, to make them easily accessible to the audience that she's speaking to, she goes out, she buys a custom domain associated with that ebook. And I started doing the exact same thing. And man, it just streamlines the process and makes it so easy that even in passing conversation, you go, oh, I have an ebook on that. Go to aiproofkids.com and you can download it and read all about how we AI proof our children going forward. It's just super simple. And it was all.

Larry Roberts [00:25:03]:

It was just brilliant.

Sara Lohse [00:25:04]:

And I've even changed the way I've done it too, because I've always done this and I've had so many different URL's and it was really just to make it easy, to make it one step because I was creating all of these lead magnets for podcasts. So when you go on a podcast, you want to be able to say, just go to this website and it'll be right there. You don't want them to have to look. But I've actually changed it a little bit. That I buy a URL that just instantly adds credibility. Like I have all these different ebooks, I have for different verticals, like different industries. The URL's that I'm going to buy are like podcasts for real estate, podcasts for education. Like if you say like, oh, you know, I own a.

Sara Lohse [00:25:46]:

I own podcast for realestate.com. Like, okay, this girl must know what she's talking about when it comes to podcasts in real estate. Like it just adds that little bit of credibility. And it's really easy for them to remember it's topic. We're talking about their industry. Like so easy, they don't have to remember my name, my brand, anything. It's just I was talking about podcasts for real estate. I wonder what the URL was.

Sara Lohse [00:26:09]:

Maybe it's podcasts for real estate. It's so easy and you can get URL's on Godaddy for usually first year is like $11.99. It goes up right now.

Larry Roberts [00:26:21]:

I don't know if there's a sale, but I've bought probably a half a dozen in the last week or so. And they're all a penny for the first year. Everyone bought, you know.

Sara Lohse [00:26:28]:

Yeah. That's common too.

Larry Roberts [00:26:30]:

Yeah. So with the. I think you have to sign up for three years, but you know, it's like a penny for the first year and like you say 1199 for the following two years or something. So.

Sara Lohse [00:26:41]:

And you don't need to have them forever. Like, if this is something that you just plan on doing for a year, buy it for a year. And then you can either let the URL die or you can keep renewing it. But you don't have to. So it doesn't have to be a lifelong expense.

Larry Roberts [00:26:54]:

Yeah.

Sara Lohse [00:26:54]:

And it's just so easy. You don't have to say, go to my website. Click here, click here. Click here.

Larry Roberts [00:27:00]:

Go.

Sara Lohse [00:27:00]:

Go under this. Go to slash something. Something. Slash something else. It's just go to this URL.

Larry Roberts [00:27:06]:

Ta da.

Sara Lohse [00:27:07]:

So easy.

Larry Roberts [00:27:08]:

Yeah, it's awesome. So I wanted to make sure we got that in there, too. So with that, that in and itself was some tremendous value that we wrapped it up with. So ideally, if you did find some value in this episode, hit that subscribe button. So we're continue to bring you these episodes each and every week. We're coming up close to episode 50, which is. Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

Sara Lohse [00:27:29]:

This is 48.

Larry Roberts [00:27:32]:

This will be 48. Yeah. Pretty awesome. So with that, I'm Larry Roberts.

Sara Lohse [00:27:37]:

And I'm Sara Lohse. We'll talk to you next week.